Questions about Round Trip Latency
This is a discussion on Questions about Round Trip Latency within the DDR3 Intel Memory forums, part of the Intel memory category; I don't understand why MBs tend to loose RTL when RAM freqency increases? e.g. In my case: RAM@7-7-7-20-1T, RAM x10, ...
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I don't understand why MBs tend to loose RTL when RAM freqency increases? e.g. In my case: RAM@7-7-7-20-1T, RAM x10, uncore x20. I thought that RTL should not change regardless of RAM frequency(or blck), because the DRAM timing does not change, and the RAM:uncore:blck ratio is fixed. Well, MBs loose sub-timings when RAM frequency increase. Does it means that RTL must be loosened in pair with some sub-timing? If so, what sub-timings affects RTL? Or MBs are simply too conservative at setting RTL? PS: How to estimate the proper RTL at given timing & frequency? I remembered that I read it somewhere, but I could not recall it now. |
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certain ranges for RTL for particular timing/frequencies Raj posted a whole article on these RTL and http://www.anandtech.com/show/2869/6 ![]()
Read time in nanoseconds = RTL x 1000/Uncore frequency RTL = 54 with Uncore = 4000mhz and cas8 and tRCD8 means: read time = 54 x 1000/4000 = 13.5ns if bump uncore to 21x multi, RTL value should move out to ~57: 57 x 1000/4200 = 13.57ns
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| Last edited by eva2000; 21-06-2010 at 05:40 AM. | |
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| By eva2000 Thanks, eva2000.
So I see that the RTL increase with fixed RAM/uncore/bclk comes from the constant delay: "~670ps (approx distance to the DIMM) for each read transfer" For R3E, it seems to be ~580ps. |
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A few more questions conerning RTL: 1. It seems that MBs change RTL(Auto) with Vtt, why? 2. Do MBs change RTL(Auto) and other sub-timings with specific RAM(e.g. spd) / CPU? 3. RTL for Channel A is easier to figure out, and MBs usually set it good. What is the typcial RTL for Channel B/Channel C? It seems that MBs are not very consistent on RTL B/C. Any typical RTL_B/RTL_C values for CL6/CL7/CL8? 4. I thought that RTL_A/RTL_B/RTL_C absolute values are critical(and directly used), while (RTL_B-RTL_A)/(RTL_C-RTL_B) values are useless(never referenced in such way). Is it correct? e.g. For a specific ram settings, if RTL 49/51/53 works, does 50/51/53 always work? Or only 50/52/54 is guaranteed to work? |
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1. no idea just it does hehe 2. i think they do at least for tFAW, tRFC, B2B timings and tRCD 3. RTL A/B/C around 2-3 difference between A and B and B and C but usually i just go with whatever is stable ![]() No typical values depends partly on how well your cpu IMC handles tighter RTL A/B/C values. 4. Not sure on that, again i just use whatever is most stable |
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| By shadewither 1) At higher DRAM frequencies there may be some drift in clock skew sensing (better known as read and write levelling). Changes in VTT facilitate a change in slew rate (the speed at which voltage increases/changes or is amplified) - this can change required clocks skews and in some instances create situations where the command or data lines are unstable during POST.
2) The CPU clock freqeuncy has no part in the Round Trip Latency value per se. The Uncore (memory controller frequency), tCL (CAS) and clock skew between the Uncore and DRAM do. 3) No typical values per se, although most of the time the memory controller prefers channel B and C to be offset by a few clocks past A. So channel B is generally +2~3 clocks and Channel C +3~5 clocks over the Channel A value. Assuming trace lengths are well matched between slots the need for such offset lies within the memory controller (although capacitance of serpentine traces may come into play at higher frequency). 4) There is a margin of pad open time - the IMC receiver stages have to be available for the transaction. The value does not have to be absolute, it depends on the size of the buffer stack. Too tight or too loose, either can cause invalid timing because when the DRAM IO buffers burst the data there will be no available agent ready to receive it (the data cannot be held in the traces between the DRAM and Uncore). Later Raja |
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| By raja Thanks for the detailed explanation
>> although capacitance of serpentine traces may come into play at higher frequency The capacitance will introduce additional latency? |
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| latency, questions, ram, round, rtl, sub timing, trip |
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